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Post by thug on Nov 27, 2005 22:21:17 GMT
To me, the greatest television show of all time. This show is one of the truest portrayals of life in art, whether it realizes it or not. Not to mention every episode is hilarious and all the actors are amazing. The genius about this show is that it is about nothing and everything at the same time.
My favorite episode has got to be "The Outing," in which Jerry and George are mistakingly revealed as gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. "The Contest" is probably a close second.
Larry David's own Curb Your Enthusiasm is one of the funniest shows of all time, too.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Nov 27, 2005 22:25:00 GMT
I've never ever watched an episode. I'd like to, though.
I did catch an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm last week; it had David Schwimmer in, playing himself. It took some time for me to get used to it; it's shot very funnily, as if they've made two episodes in one day, very rapidly and very cheaply. It was funny, though.
Mick
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Nov 27, 2005 22:38:05 GMT
This show is one of the truest portrayals of life in art, whether it realizes it or not. Oh, it realises it. The idea of pitching a 'show about nothing' to HBO, called 'Jerry', runs through the entire span of the show. It's easily the most (only?) formally intelligent sitcom ever created. I think my favourite episode is "The Comeback", or "The Dealership". I actually haven't seen any of Curb Your Enthusiasm. I like the sound of it, though
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Post by Vercetti on Nov 27, 2005 22:39:18 GMT
I agree with Thug that this is the best sitcom ever, and with all of the sitcoms I like throughout various decades, that says a lot. I have The first three seasons on the boxset, and hope to buy the other ones.
I love Kramer the most, definitely the most memorable character. My favorite episode is probably The Boyfriend, where Jerry befriends a baseball star and Kramer and Newman claim he spit on them, showing the flashback as a spoof of JFK.
Back....and to the left......this must've been one magic loogey!
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Nov 28, 2005 3:25:27 GMT
I agree, this is the best television show of all time, right behind "The Twilight Zone".
The thing that made "Seinfeld" so wonderful is that the writers (mainly Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David) had a lot of creative freedom when making the show. Also, they took a lot out of their own lives, making the show very relatable, but also very twisted. They played on human nature and exploited the things that we think. Very smart, and very funny.
Plus, Seinfeld and David were already successful in their field, so they really didn't care about losing their jobs, which made the show more daring.
I don't really have a favorite character, but Michael Richards was the best actor on the show. He took his role so seriously, and would almost always stay in character. It's interesting to watch the bloopers on the DVD, and to see how Richards gets angry at his co-stars when they start to laugh during a scene. He'll often refer to them by their character name, even after the director has yelled cut. The others are great too.
Also, the show probably has the best and most diverse supporting cast of any production of all time. J. Petermen, Puddy, Jackie Chiles, George Steinbrenner, and of course, Postal Employee Newman.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Dec 30, 2007 1:10:06 GMT
I officially want to get into this show, but doubt (unless I see it verrrrrry cheap) I'll but any DVDs until I fill my Curb Your Enthusiasm collection.
Question: does it have canned laughter?
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Dec 30, 2007 1:38:01 GMT
No, it was filmed in front of a studio audience, and anything shot elsewhere was screened for an audience to record their response.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Dec 30, 2007 1:40:43 GMT
So there's still laughter, however natural?
EDIT: This isn't a bad thing, by the way; just trying to get a picture of the show before I watch it.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Dec 30, 2007 2:01:39 GMT
Yeah, there's laughter, and it's mostly a traditional three-camera setup and staged for a proscenium, particularly in the early seasons. It's like a play a lot of the time. You really sense the presence of the audience behind the camera in the Jerry's apartment set, but not so much in the coffee shop set.
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Post by Blib on Dec 30, 2007 4:33:00 GMT
I officially want to get into this show, but doubt (unless I see it verrrrrry cheap) You could always rent them.
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Post by Robert C. on Jul 3, 2008 5:59:53 GMT
The final two seasons, without Larry David, are complete dog shit compared to the others. David did however come back to write the finale which is probably greatest finale ever. But seasons and 8 and 9 are night and day different from the first 7. The show takes on a completely new style and diverts drastically from David's writing formula from the first 7 yrs. Don't even bother with those seasons, just skip to the finale, Capo, which also runs through the span of the entire show. Someone mentioned "The Dealership" as one of their favorites and I have to say, I dislike that episode to the point where I literally get nauseous even thinking about it it's so bad. It's probably the absolute worst episode of the show other than maybe the initial episode before David finally got full control. It strikes me odd that anyone could compare that with classics such as (just to name a very few) "The Contest", "The Bubble Boy", "The Chinese Restaurant", "The JFK spoof/Keith Hernandez", "The Junior Mint", "The Puffy Shirt", "The Marine Biologist", "The Pilot", "The Parking Garage", "The Jimmy", "The Soup Nazi", etc., etc.; these are the episodes that embody everything that made the show great. The final two seasons (under Jerry) are admittedly slap-stick humor.
The finale, like "the pilot", develops a story that somehow is able to include almost every major character throughout the show's run (actually, I'm not sure if anyone from the final two seasons other than Elaine's rabbi is involved)....But most watchers were entirely too daft to realize the genius of it at the time.
EDIT Capo-The first couple of episodes aren't exactly flooring on first viewing, especially considering that you're watching them post-dated almost 20 yrs (God, I can't believe it's been almost 20 yrs). The first episode you'll see will be the pilot (literally, not the episode with the same title), it's very clever, has strokes of genius, but not at all what David had planned for show. Be patient with the first few episodes. NBC was still in the dark-ages of 80's television and they wanted to install cheesy 80's Kurt Cameron-Don Johnson type character appeal into the narrative.
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Jul 3, 2008 13:26:37 GMT
Someone mentioned "The Dealership" as one of their favorites and I have to say, I dislike that episode to the point where I literally get nauseous even thinking about it it's so bad. It's probably the absolute worst episode of the show other than maybe the initial episode before David finally got full control. I LOVE this episode. George: "Yeah, like I'm going to take my car to a dealership to get it fixed."
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Jul 3, 2008 16:44:26 GMT
There's not that much slapstick in the last two seasons. More, maybe, than before, but it's still mostly concept- and dialogue-based comedy.
Festivus, "serenity now", The Merv Griffin Show, the "lady-Jerry", George's "siege mentality" at Play Now, the new "emotional" Jerry, Kramer's twelve-year strike, H.E. Pennypacker meeting fellow wealthy industrialists Kel Varnson and Art Vandalay in the show apartment.
That's just season 9, too. Season 8's better. I think it's mostly an artificial divide between the 7th and 8th seasons.
I've decided my favourite episode is "The Race".
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Post by Robert C. on Jul 3, 2008 23:35:52 GMT
There's nothing artificial about the divide, the difference is very real. Again,. Larry David was head writer and decided the coarse of the show's entire narrative for the first 7 seasons. It's his show, he came up with the idea, the premise, everything that is SEINFELD is Larry David. However, he had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with seasons 8 and 9. It's quite simple, if you're a Larry DAvid fan, then you should love the first seven seasons. Seasons 8 and 9 might still be decent, but they're NOT Larry David. It's that simple. Let's take an example to illustrate the difference: an episode from episode 6, "The Big Salad," quintessential Larry David. George purchases a "big salad" for Elaine, but his girlfriend (Julie) appears to take credit for the purchase. George obsesses over the fact that Elaine believes Julie bought the salad, to the point that he goes out of his way to inform Elaine that he was responsible for the purchase of the big salad. It costs George his relationship. THAT is vintage Larry David and the PRECISELY type of story you'd see on Curb and PRECISELY the type of story you would NOT see in Seinfeld season 8 or 9. David took most of his staff with him when he left. Jerry purposely changed the show's prerogative, realized it wasn't going to work, and decided to cancel the show...got it? BTW: the "dealership" episode was the first episode aired after Jerry Seinfeld announced on December 26, 1997 that the show would end in May. That should tell you something. That and "Serenity Now" are the only two episodes that writer Stephen Koren had a hand in. (By the time either of you guys turned 10 yrs of age the show was almost over, and I'd already seen every episode at least five times each. TRUST ME, Larry David is sole creative force behind the show's greatness -- have you seen Curb? There's a reason SEINFELD brought David back to write the finale and not let the hacks that had been writing the last 2 yrs write it.) [/i]"[/quote] SURELY, you DON'T think those compare to "the second spitter theory", George's mom catching him masturbating, George thinking that "it" moved while he got a massage from a guy, George and Jerry being mistaken for homosexuals ("not there's anything wrong with it"), Jerry suspecting his accountant is a cocaine addict, George slipping a mickey in his boss' drink, George getting fired for having sex on top of his desk with the Hispanic cleaning lady, George playing an antisemitic, anti-Zionist, white supremacist in the back of a limo, Kramer giving George a defective condom, Elaine's "nipple christmas-card", Elaine's anonymous dirty message on Larry's tape recorder, The elderly couple buying "The Kramer" for $5000, Kramer burning down Susan's closeted homosexual father's cabin, Jerry trying to date a virgin who ends up losing it to John F Kennedy, Jr., Jerry losing a girlfriend who thinks he picked his nose, Jerry's girlfriend walking in on George naked and seeing his "shrinkage", Calvin Kline telling Kramer his buttocks are "divine," Kramer accidentally punching Mickey Mantle, Jerry laying out Bette Midler in a softball game, George gets caught looking at Denise Richard's 15 yr old cleavage, George having the African woman 'dip his bald head in oil and rub it all over her body', Jerry employing Elaine to find out if his girlfriend's tits are real, Kramer and Jerry accidentally dropping a junior mint into an exposed patient's body, Jerry trying to remember his girlfriend's name that rhymes with a female body part (deloris), "Crazy Joe Davola", Kramer being mistaken for the 'smog strangler', George converting to Latvian Orthodox for a woman, Kramer swaying Susan's girlfriend to heterosexuality (lol), Kramer's personal plumbing problem and his avoiding using the "dreaded apparatus", NBC executive joining GreenPeace on Elaine's advice, Elaine faking her orgasms, Jerry having to wear the "puffy shirt", George becoming a hand model and wearing oven mits, "pig man" stealing George's car, A Mohel circumcising Jerry's finger -- leading to a Godfather spoof , Jerry inadvertently says the F-word (which is censored) while near the yogurt shop owner's son -- and later, "thanks for costing my dad his store you [censored]", George getting 'grounded' for having sex in his parents bed, George's man-crush on Elaine's boyfriend "he's so cool", Kramer's "hole in one" in the whale's blow hole, George getting in trouble at the health club for urinating in the shower, the "close talker" (lol), Kramer's coffee table book about coffee tables that transforms into a coffee table, George landing a job with the Yankees b/c of his 'opposite' theory, Elaine's boss eating a Snickers bar with a fork and knife, Jerry dating the wanna-be Chinese lady, "it's really getting ridicu rous, Poppie peeing on Jerry's new couch, Jerry having sex with the Romanian gymnist b/c Kramer thinks she is probably very "flexible," George buys an 89 LeBaron b/c he thinks it's John Voight's, Jerry takes a polygraph to prove he doesn't watch Melrose Place, Cosmo Kramer the "assman", Kramer is forced to apologize to a monkey, George poisoning his fiancee with toxic envelopes, etc....do you???
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Post by Robert C. on Jul 3, 2008 23:39:52 GMT
SEINFELD - Elaine freaks out - Stellawww.youtube.com/watch?v=TGfdpnsIy4EThis is from "The Pen", episode 20, season 3. I'm thinking this is before most of you guy's time, but absolutely one of the finer moments from the show's history. STELLA!!!!!!!! And Jerry ha!!!
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Jul 4, 2008 1:29:00 GMT
There's nothing artificial about the divide, the difference is very real. Again,. Larry David was head writer and decided the coarse of the show's entire narrative for the first 7 seasons. It's his show, he came up with the idea, the premise, everything that is SEINFELD is Larry David. However, he had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with seasons 8 and 9. Yes, I know that. What I meant by the artificial divide was that people who believe there's a huge and clear drop in the quality of the show between the last episode of Season 7 and the first episode of Season 8 tend to gloss over the reason for Larry David's departure. He felt he'd finished with the show and taken it as far as he could. His enthusiasm for it was waning and he wanted to do other things. Now, given that fact, and given also the assumption that these people (you, for instance) are not suggesting that the show would have maintained the quality of its Season 3-7 run indefinitely if Larry David had remained onboard, it seems reasonable to suggest that the decline was coming anyway, regardless. And no, it's not true that "everything that is Seinfeld is Larry David". If that were true the show would've changed beyond recognition when David left, and all that happened was a general shift in character, pace and tone. If "everything that is Seinfeld is Larry David", then it would not be possible to tell a Larry Charles episode from the rest, and it is. I'm a Seinfeld fan, not a Larry David zealot (have you seen Sour Grapes?). I love all the seasons. This is an argument against someone who claimed Larry David's departure had no effect on the content of the show. (Ie: not me.) What should it tell me? That it was calculated to alleviate the disappointment of the announcement (since I like it), or that it was a form of explanation-by-example of the reason they had made the announcement (since you hate it)? Shift key or no shift key, Larry David was not the sole creative force behind the show's "greatness". It's completely naiive to think that. What about, y'know, all the other writers, the actors, Andy Ackerman and Tom Cherones, and co-creator Jerry, around whose comedic style much of the show is themed? You're really coming across as having the mindset of a zealot. And despite my apparently being several years younger than I thought I was, I'm actually well experienced in spotting ad hominem arguments. Let's see: you saw the episodes before I saw the episodes. Therefore your opinion of how funny seasons 8 and 9 are in relation to seasons 1 thru 7 is more valid than mine. Maybe when I get a little older I'll see the light, is that the gist of it? Or is it that I'll never understand how dreadful seasons 8 and 9 are because I wasn't hip to the show in 1990? Actually, I'd argue that the fact that I only started watching Seinfeld during its last two seasons, coupled with the fact that the show was never a popular phenomenon over here (and hence my not having a clue who Larry David was until well after the show had ended) gives me a more objective viewpoint. I'm not emotionally bound up in the mere fact of David's departure. Yes, there is a decline that, yes, begins in season 8. I actually think, though, that the difference in general quality between seasons 8 and 9 is significantly greater than that between seasons 7 and 8. Sure they compare. They're funnier than some of those and not as funny as most of them. But the only point I was making is that seasons 8 and 9 are good, not that they're the two best seasons. But if we're making comparisons, I'll take, say, Newman's interrogation of Jerry over the mail fraud, and the unveiling of George's unwitting exchange of erotic photographs with the dude in the photo shop, over, say, Elaine's boyfriend 'losing himself' in an Eagles song. Or, say, Kramer establishing a Peterman Reality Bus Tour and being unable to dispose of the stumps from Elaine's Muffin Top venture ("Are they war veterans?"), over the whole of that self-consciously minimal and mostly pointless "Subway" episode. Or, say, Jerry and Kramer switching apartments and therefore identities, over, say, Jerry minding that old drunk's dog. The show was never flawless. Not every line is a zinger. The later episodes, from the fifth season onward, I suppose, had a much tighter structure than the earlier ones (which is to be expected), there was less flabby act structures where episodes would climax halfway through and then trickle on ("The Alternate Side", for instance). Also, in the later episodes you're free of Larry Charles's unfortunate tendency to self-indulgently insert artificially 'dark' (as he persistently calls them) elements into the plots (serial killers, neo-Nazis, dangerous criminals, etc). And you're also afforded the opportunity of having elaborate in-jokes that are utterly meaningless to anyone who hasn't followed the show ("It's not Top o' the Muffin TO YOU!" "No, no, it is!"). This notion that it was an unimpeachable paragon of comedy perfection from the pilot right up until "The Invitations" and that then it just fell into a bottomless pit beginning with "The Foundation" strikes me as biased and reactionary. But of course you're entitled to your tastes, and I to mine.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Jul 4, 2008 1:38:53 GMT
I'm thinking this is before most of you guy's time ? You know the show is in syndication worldwide, and on DVD, right?
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Jul 4, 2008 1:39:31 GMT
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Post by Robert C. on Jul 4, 2008 3:40:15 GMT
I think that's a pretty funny scene, even though it's clearly not the work of Larry David, and it's not indicative of the first seven seasons, night and day difference in fact. At that post-David point in Seinfeld, the writers (Jerry included) were trying to put their own touch on the show. And although David might not have written each and every episode in the first 7 seasons, he was still head writer, creator of the show, and had jurisdiction over anything and everything that was in the script. When he left, guys like Larry Charles and Jerry Seinfeld changed the formula(quite dramatically).
Jerry helped Larry David create the show, yes, but it was David's idea --that's why he wrote every major episode in the narrative arc and "returned" to write the finale and "The Envelopes." No one else could write such crucial episodes in the narrative such as these b/c it was LARRY DAVID'S STORY!1! He had to write them. B/c of the fact the show is about "Jerry", and bears his name, ppl tend to think that it was his idea. But I assure you that David's leaving would be the equivalent of David Chase leaving The Sopranos.
The show pretty much did change beyond recognition after David left, that's what I can't make you realize, and that's why I tabbed you to be a passive viewer of the show relative to myself.
Writers such as Charles understood David's vision, that's why he hired them. He gave them some creative freedom,yes, and they made some contributions certainly, but they still followed his form. After he left, there was a change, and a far more drastic change than simply a "general shift in character, pace and tone"(which you took from wikipedia). The David function of observing everyday, useless minutia was virtually non-existent, as was the David formula of bonding seemingly unrelated happenings in the narrative together during the episode's climax, i.e "The Marine Biologist." The show took on a very fantasy like approach (especially Kramer, who went from being a bit zany to absolutely insane). The episode where Kramer puts up a screen door in the apartment and thinks he actually lives in Anytown, USA ?? -- total nonsensical bullshit compared to the other seasons.
After the departure, writers such as Charles still had a basic structure (above) that David (and Jerry, to an extent) put in place which Charles and such could try to approximate their actions to, thus, elements of David's style are still there, but, David would have never written the scene you posted above.
There are a lot of episodes and lot of content. There are also a lot of recurring characters and themes in the early yrs (unlike seasons 8,9 btw) and thus an relatively 'inexperienced' viewer might not pick up on all of the jokes that stem from other episodes.
LIEK LAWLZ!1!
Ya, but the way you guys were going on about shitty episodes I figured you were just passive viewers who hadn't seen too much of the golden years, or more specifically, haven't viewed them sufficiently!1!
EDIT (But you're correct about the show going to crap before he ever left. Had NBC followed David's lead (which they didn't) they could have taken a more 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' approach, which network television was NOT ready for at the time. So, instead, he left and joined up with HBO and made the best show ever!1)
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Post by Robert C. on Jul 4, 2008 3:41:20 GMT
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