Jenson71
Ghost writer
Bush is watching you
Posts: 810
|
Post by Jenson71 on Feb 4, 2009 2:32:02 GMT
So what's the deal with Uncle Junior? I loved his character, and felt it was acted superbly. How crazy/gone was he? Could he really not remember Tony at the end? Couldn't even remember his brother Johnny Boy and the days of running New Jersey?
|
|
Omar
Global Moderator
Professione: reporter
Posts: 2,770
|
Post by Omar on Feb 4, 2009 3:16:14 GMT
Yeah, his story is the saddest to me.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
It took me until I watched the series a second time to fully grasp the tragedy of his character. When I first watched the show, Season 6a had just got done airing, so I had to wait awhile until it came to DVD and then wait again for 6b to start. It was a long gap in time for the entire show. But watched all back to back, he goes from a powerful man, to an exiled adviser, to an aging man who is depressed by his friends dying and his own eminent death, and then reduced to a blubbering idiot.
Tragic indeed.
|
|
Kino
Published writer
Posts: 1,200
|
Post by Kino on Feb 4, 2009 4:01:11 GMT
Season 6B had probably two of my favorite moments in the entire series. One is Tony trying to comfort AJ after his suicide attempt and the other is Tony's final visit with Uncle Junior. That's the moment that Tony realized that Junior's deterioration wasn't an act. He probably still thought Junior was healthy in the head when Junior shot him, though. Well, at least that's what I think.
|
|
Jenson71
Ghost writer
Bush is watching you
Posts: 810
|
Post by Jenson71 on Feb 4, 2009 4:03:09 GMT
I definitely agree Omar. The parts where he was 'alive' and up and running, mostly in the first couple of seasons, were great - full of life and very entertaining.
The parts where he was confused were actually confusing. Is he sick? What's he going to say now? What are people going to do with him? What's his future?
I hoped for a reconciling between the two. : /
|
|
Jenson71
Ghost writer
Bush is watching you
Posts: 810
|
Post by Jenson71 on Feb 4, 2009 4:09:59 GMT
SPOILERS:
After reading some more about it from wikipedia: Another thing that makes Junior tragic in the way is he was like a Fredo. He was passed over, never really the boss. The short time that he was, Tony was really behind things. So he worked all his life in the family, with his brother (who was made before him despite being younger) being boss, and then finally when the chance comes to him, he's too powerless to really get a hold of it.
|
|
Omar
Global Moderator
Professione: reporter
Posts: 2,770
|
Post by Omar on Feb 4, 2009 4:30:09 GMT
The parts where he was confused were actually confusing. Is he sick? What's he going to say now? What are people going to do with him? What's his future? SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS One of my favorite moments in the show is from Season 4's "Whoever Did This". Basically the last quarter of the episode is Tony and Chris waiting around, and slowly disposing of Ralph. The ending with Tony exiting the club is haunting. But there is one break from it: Junior going next door and asking for ice cream. If I'm not mistaken, it is the first time in the series to showcase his slip into illness, AND OUT OF NOWHERE!
|
|
Capo
Administrator
Posts: 7,847
|
Post by Capo on Feb 7, 2009 14:13:44 GMT
SEASON 6B SPOILERSIf jacket man did kill Tony, I've read a reasonable motivation from a mafia buff. [...] Well, the DiMeo Family isn't included in the Five Families of New York. And it's regarded as a "glorified crew" by Phil. I don't think any collective sanction would be required in order to take out Tony. And Jersey had no business with any of the other New York Families (that we're told about): it's just the Sopranos and the Lupertazzis; the business interests are mutual - we dip in to New York as you dip in to New Jersey, etc.
There's a moment in "The Blue Comet" when Phil announces to Butch and Albie that they're going to go to war with Tony: "We decapitate, and do business with whatever's left." Phil's final line is, "There's no scraps in my scrapbook." Butch and Albie share a look of bewilderment as to what he's talking about; essentially, Phil's breaking the Strictly Business code, and he's taking things all very personal. From the start, then, Butch is hesitant and uneasy about going to war with NJ.
In the final episode, Butch is left running things while Phil is MIA. When Phil phones Butch, the latter hints at reaching out to NJ; it doesn't sit well with Phil, and the conversation turns sour (Phil hangs up prematurely).
At the sitdown, Tony suggests that a sanctioned hit on Phil is a pre-requisite for any truce. Butch refuses to give up Phil's location to Tony (actually, he himself doesn't know), but says, "You do what you gotta do". That's a clear case of responsibility-dodging. It's in Butch's interests too that Phil is killed; aware of the consequences of actually sanctioning a hit on his Boss, however, he gives the unofficial okay. This is easily covered up to the rest of the New York Families. To quote Pussy from the opening episode: "They know, but they don't know."
So, in light of all of this, I see Butch ordering a hit on Tony only if he's still upset about the Coco incident, in which Tony points a gun at Butch and kicks Coco's mouth into oblivion. But I think the sitdown in the warehouse is genuine on both sides.
I disagree that Paulie would be easier to work with than Tony. His attempted defection to the Lupertazzis fell flat in Season 4, remember, upon the realisation that Carmine Sr. didn't even know who he was (despite Johnny Sack's misinformation). Also, if Paulie lacks the political clout required of a strong leader (and thus an easier puppet for NY to operate), he's also severely lacking a network strong enough to make him invulnerable to the Feds: he has no legal income, doesn't have the suction with lawyers, assemblymen, etc. that Tony has.
Patsy would be a better choice, but again, he isn't up to scratch, in terms of business interests.
Coming back to this innocuous nuisance of a jacket fellow, then: if he is a hired assassin, it's got to be from the original order from Phil. Just as Butch and Albie aren't aware of Phil's location, so maybe they're also unable to reach the button. Maybe Phil, cautious and snake-like as he is, hired his own guy through a direct channel, without any other filters.
That's the only way I can see Tony getting whacked in the diner. It's the only reasonable option I've deduced; eveything else seems to be clutching at straws and investing a lot of what-if decoration onto the guy.
Of course, I'm treating all of this as if it is a puzzle to be solved. The whole debate falls flat if it's just a case of Chase fucking his continuity up, or just adding suggestive symbolism and in the process undermining all the logicality of the scene. And I'm not ruling that out, at all, actually. The entire debate rests on the assumption that Chase is treating it logically as well as symbolically, on the assumption that he hasn't simply overlooked plausibility for the sake of a self-congratulatory ending.
|
|
Capo
Administrator
Posts: 7,847
|
Post by Capo on Feb 7, 2009 14:26:53 GMT
SEASON 6B SPOILERSCouldn't they have showed any clip of Bobby and Tony? Why that specific one with that specific line? Because it's in relation to Bobby's death. I think Tony's hoping that Bobby didn't suffer. And it gains an extra weight considering how Bobby was killed: he did see it coming.I actually agree with this. I don't really care either way because it's quite irrelevent. I actually don't have any objection to Tony being killed in the final cut-to-black, but the arguments I've read for it are based entirely on the symbolism; as my previous post says, such arguments ignore the logicality of Tony getting shot. And as I've said, it's possible that Chase himself overlooked that.
It's just as possible to argue that the final two scenes (at least) are Tony's imagination. In both of them, Chase cuts from Tony looking from afar at a scene (in the first, at Uncle Junior in the corner of his room, in the second, at the diner) to Tony actually in the scene. In both instances, it's actually quite a disruptive jump-cut; and both could easily be argued that Tony is imagining a would-be closure with his uncle, and a would-be nice family dinner out.
The more I watch and think about the show as a whole, it portrays America as an ongoing Purgatory anyway. I think the final episode's title is very significant.
|
|
Capo
Administrator
Posts: 7,847
|
Post by Capo on Feb 7, 2009 14:34:49 GMT
On Uncle Junior:
It's interesting how his genuine dementia begins with feigned craziness. Omar mentioned a moment above when he asks his neighbour for some ice cream, but I believe that's put on - he's been told to do so by his lawyer in order to beat his trial on the grounds of insanity. But at what point does it turn genuine? It becomes clear-cut during "Where's Johnny?"
Also, on the comparisons to Fredo: Fredo of course was misled and pushed into betraying Michael in Part II by Johnny Ola, played by Dominic Chianese. Junior's first (only?) attempted hit on Tony comes about by another Ola of sorts: Livia. Upon the realisation that Tony survived the attempted hit, Livia seems to feign craziness in order to exempt herself of guilt and responsibility. Junior goes apeshit; he's been led along by a cunning hand and left in the wilderness (remembering this naivety, he shuns Richie Aprile a season later).
|
|
Jenson71
Ghost writer
Bush is watching you
Posts: 810
|
Post by Jenson71 on Feb 7, 2009 18:25:00 GMT
SPOILERS
I read something interesting on another board that asks if the last scene was another blackout from Tony. He stopped going to the therapist, and was in some very stressful moments, as we can tell from the tension in the scene.
|
|
Omar
Global Moderator
Professione: reporter
Posts: 2,770
|
Post by Omar on Feb 7, 2009 20:03:45 GMT
SEASON 6B SPOILERS It's just as possible to argue that the final two scenes (at least) are Tony's imagination. In both of them, Chase cuts from Tony looking from afar at a scene (in the first, at Uncle Junior in the corner of his room, in the second, at the diner) to Tony actually in the scene. In both instances, it's actually quite a disruptive jump-cut; and both could easily be argued that Tony is imagining a would-be closure with his uncle, and a would-be nice family dinner out. Yeah, I remember being really tripped out by this in the final scene when this episode first aired. It gave the whole thing another aspect to it.
|
|
Capo
Administrator
Posts: 7,847
|
Post by Capo on Feb 10, 2009 10:58:11 GMT
I just got my dissertation mark back online, and it's my worst mark ever at uni. I'm confused, disappointed, blah blah blah. Fffffuck.
Not that I agree with the grade system, and not that I'm interesting in pursuing grades as an end, but this fucks my chances of achieving anywhere near a first.
Not to make excuses before I get the actual hardcopy (with feedback) back, but I had a feeling I might get fucked over due to my outside behaviour.
|
|
Kino
Published writer
Posts: 1,200
|
Post by Kino on Feb 10, 2009 20:34:08 GMT
SEASON 6B SPOILERSWell, the DiMeo Family isn't included in the Five Families of New York. And it's regarded as a "glorified crew" by Phil. I don't think any collective sanction would be required in order to take out Tony. I know. I just threw that in there not as a statement, but as a possibility just in case there's stuff to sanctioning that I'm missing (i.e., if this is how it's done then this). I can't comment with confidence as I can't recall the last season too clearly (and you've watched it more than I have), but I have a remaining impression that Butch egged on Phil to go after Tony and that Butch didn't like Tony and (his crew?) for some reason (before the curb stomp incident). Is my memory faulty in regards to that? But if you're talking specifically and just about Butch's uneasiness at the motivations behind finally going to war then disregard what I brought up. I didn't bring up Paulie as the answer for who I felt would be easier to work with. I brought up the motivation as possible motivation by the Lupertazzis in the possibility of a hit. I brought up Paulie because I really didn't know who was left. I was asking. I'm still not very familiar with Season 6B. Solid reasoning. Solid reasoning. Don't get me wrong Capo, this post isn't meant as a counter-argument. I defer to you in all things Sopranos because I'm sure I'm missing out and not remembering details as I haven't seen it much.
|
|
Kino
Published writer
Posts: 1,200
|
Post by Kino on Mar 11, 2009 2:40:28 GMT
Revisited Season 1. I'm falling in love with the series all over again.
I really underrated the familial stories. They're fantastic.
I think the figure whose future got to me is Anthony Jr.. My eyes welled up.
Massive Genius!
|
|
RNL
Global Moderator
Posts: 6,624
|
Post by RNL on Mar 16, 2009 23:49:59 GMT
This is a thread I do not frequent, but I thought you guys might like to know: >>> slashfilm.com 16-Mar-2009 The Sopranos creator David Chase has announced his return to HBO with a miniseries about the “the invention of cinema and subsequent growth of the Hollywood film industry”. A Ribbon of Dreams begins in 1913 and follows two men — a college-educated mechanical engineer and a cowboy with a violent past, who begin as employees of D.W. Griffith, and then cross career paths with John Ford, John Wayne, Raoul Walsh, Bette Davis, Billy Wilder and others who gave shape to Hollywood as it grew from “the age of rough-hewn silent Westerns, to the golden era of talkies and the studio system, to the auteur movement, to television, and finally to the present day.”
The title, A Ribbon of Dreams, is taken from an old quote by Orson Welles, who said that “A film is a ribbon of dreams.” Chase is writing the miniseries and plans to direct the initial episodes. I’ve always loved films and television shows set inside the film/television world. One of my friends had a great series idea set in the golden age of Hollywood (being vague for a reason), and while I’m not sure we’ll ever see that idea, this seems like the next best thing. Read the full press release after the jump.
DAVID CHASE TO DEVELOP MINISERIES ABOUT THE CREATION OF HOLLYWOOD FOR HBO
LOS ANGELES, March 16, 2009 — David Chase, multi-award-winning creator of “The Sopranos,” is returning to HBO to develop a miniseries about the invention of cinema and subsequent growth of the Hollywood film industry, it was announced today by Richard Plepler, co-president, HBO, and Michael Lombardo, president, Programming Group and West Coast Operations, HBO.
Entitled A RIBBON OF DREAMS, the miniseries will begin in 1913 and follow two men, one a college-educated mechanical engineer, the other a cowboy with a violent past, who form an unlikely producing partnership and together become pioneers and then powers for a time in motion pictures.
Chase will write and executive produce the miniseries, as well as direct the initial episodes. Paramount Pictures chairman and CEO Brad Grey, who executive produced the landmark HBO series “The Sopranos” with Chase, will also serve as an executive producer on the miniseries. A RIBBON OF DREAMS will be an HBO/Paramount Pictures/Chase Films production.
The miniseries will follow the two main characters as they begin as employees of D.W. Griffith, and then cross career paths with John Ford, John Wayne, Raoul Walsh, Bette Davis, Billy Wilder and others who gave shape to Hollywood as it grew from the age of rough-hewn silent Westerns, to the golden era of talkies and the studio system, to the auteur movement, to television, and finally to the present day. A RIBBON OF DREAMS takes its name from Orson Welles’ description, “A film is a ribbon of dreams.”
Chase said, “It gives me pleasure to think of working, together with Brad, with HBO, again. These are all people who, obviously, occupy a special place in my heart.”
“For seven years, David Chase dazzled and entertained the world with ‘The Sopranos.’ He’s a remarkable talent,” noted Plepler, “and we’re very excited to be working with both David and Brad again.”
“The return of David Chase to HBO is great news for our viewers,” observed Lombardo. “The epic scope of this miniseries will provide the perfect setting for his remarkable creative gifts.”
“David is a master storyteller who has once again chosen a fascinating subject,” said Grey. “I am excited for this project as an executive producer, a friend and a huge fan of David’s, and am grateful to HBO’s incredibly talented leadership of Richard and Michael for partnering with us.”
Prior to creating “The Sopranos,” hailed as one of the most significant series in television history, Chase executive produced the series “I’ll Fly Away” and “Northern Exposure,” and created and executive produced the critically-lauded drama “Almost Grown.” Chase is also currently writing a feature film for Paramount Pictures. He is represented by UTA and attorney Michael Gendler.
Kary Antholis, president, HBO miniseries, will oversee the project.
|
|
RNL
Global Moderator
Posts: 6,624
|
Post by RNL on Jun 16, 2009 20:09:59 GMT
Soooo... I've started watching The Sopranos. I'm 7 episodes into Season 1, and it's pretty darn good.
|
|
Kino
Published writer
Posts: 1,200
|
Post by Kino on Jun 17, 2009 22:51:33 GMT
Soooo... I've started watching The Sopranos. I'm 7 episodes into Season 1, and it's pretty darn good. Glad to read that you like it so far, Email. What are some of the stuff (content, theme, scenes, lines, characters, etc.) you like so far?
|
|
Jenson71
Ghost writer
Bush is watching you
Posts: 810
|
Post by Jenson71 on Jun 18, 2009 0:39:10 GMT
Soooo... I've started watching The Sopranos. I'm 7 episodes into Season 1, and it's pretty darn good. Cool! Keep us updated with your thoughts, wetdog. You know how valuable we know they are.
|
|
Capo
Administrator
Posts: 7,847
|
Post by Capo on Jun 19, 2009 16:42:37 GMT
Glad to read that you like it so far, Email. Absolutely LMFAO!
|
|
RNL
Global Moderator
Posts: 6,624
|
Post by RNL on Jun 19, 2009 16:47:00 GMT
wtf?
|
|