Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 18, 2008 22:25:27 GMT
SEASON 5 SPOILERS
Things change, but they don't really. The game (street; police force; politics; etc.) continues. It uses and crushes its players.
Those that try to play the game differently (Stinger; Daniels) get fucked. The wrong people get promoted. The least deserving get back on their feet easily (fuck you, Herc). The wrong people walk (Levy; Marlo).
The school and child welfare system is fucked where an obviously bright person Dukie falls through the cracks. Dukie shooting up is heartbreaking. So is seeing the once upbeat Randy broken. Namond gets a shot at a life, though. Given that chance by his criminal father no less.
Bubbles makes it to the table! (It's disheartening to read some people on messageboards not giving a fuck about Bubbles and Dukie.)
Fuck Templeton, Whiting, and Klebanow. I was red-hot at seeing them win a Pulitzer. Funny (not literally) thing is McNulty's copycat and the coverup helped Templeton get it.
Carcetti's promises were empty ones.
Valcheck, commissioner? Wow.
Marlo? That scene of him leaving the function to go down to the corner speaks volumes.
Rhonda by saving her, Daniels, McNulty, Lester, and Sydnor's asses let Marlo and Levy walk.
If Kima didn't rat McNulty and Lester out, the case could have gone further and Levy might've gotten the case thrown out. As Lester said something like, "All the pieces matter." The Wire much better than other acclaimed movies like Crash or Babel in showing the interconnectivity of one's actions.
Michael, the "next" Omar.
A McNulty spirit lives in the force - Sydnor.
Oh yeah, talk about narrative tapestry. The seeds of Clay Davis were planted in Season 1 and only come to light in Season 4 and 5! Amazing storytelling. Not to mention Clay Davis-Stringer thing gets expounded on in Season 5.
The game is rigged.
Omar, how do you rank the seasons? Tough and virtually impossible, I know. Transitions, Late Editions, and - 30 - are top-tier The Wire episodes.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 20, 2008 18:51:16 GMT
SEASON 5 SPOILERS
Omar, did you catch any familiar homeless living under the bridge? Did you read about something Kenard said in the past?
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Mar 20, 2008 21:11:30 GMT
SEASON 5 SPOILERSThe school and child welfare system is fucked where an obviously bright person Dukie falls through the cracks. Dukie shooting up is heartbreaking. So is seeing the once upbeat Randy broken. Namond gets a shot at a life, though. Given that chance by his criminal father no less.
Bubbles makes it to the table! (It's disheartening to read some people on messageboards not giving a fuck about Bubbles and Dukie.)
I've read comments elsewhere in which people claim that Dukie's story was unnecessary for this season and stupid. I think it was essential. In order for Bubbles to come full circle and move on (I was worried about him at the beginning of the season, but that final glimpse of him going up the stairs and into the kitchen was beautiful), then you at least had to have some perspective on how he could have gotten on the path of an addict, which is where Dukie's story for the fifth season comes in.
I'm not sure if you watched the three prequels for the show, but I liked them for their humor. However, I remember feeling that there should have been one with a more serious tone, perhaps Bubbles first time shooting up? But I feel like they more than made up for it with Dukie's story. It showed how someone with so much potential can be turned away and abandoned by the institution.
I was SHOCKED to see Dukie shooting up at the end. I didn't expect it at all, and didn't even realize that was what he was doing while scamming Pryzbylewski (heartbreaking cameo). I find it hard to believe that the people who didn't like Bubble's or Dukie's stories could find any enjoyment in "The Wire" at all.
Fuck Templeton, Whiting, and Klebanow. I was red-hot at seeing them win a Pulitzer. Funny (not literally) thing is McNulty's copycat and the coverup helped Templeton get it.
I've read many comments saying the journalist storyline didn't work and that the whole "serial killer story" was implausible. I feel that they didn't go over the top with it, and they could have easily, and that it was a brilliant device in tying everything together, something "The Wire" does like no other. Speaking of which, my thoughts of Season 2 being a mini-season are now gone. We needed it for a background on Beadie's character (I really felt for her this season) and The Greek connection (glad they came back to tie everything together, because essentially, they are the core), among other things.
Carcetti's promises were empty ones.
A great closure to the political storyline opened in season 3. The show perfectly depicts how a young idealist can be corrupted by the institution and the numbers game, so to speak.
Valcheck, commissioner? Wow.
NEVER would have expected this. I watch this show with my mother, and she was hoping that Rawls would get exposed for who he was, or that the character would have some sort of undoing. But, she soon realized that it wouldn't be "The Wire" if someone like him didn't get away alright.
Marlo? That scene of him leaving the function to go down to the corner speaks volumes.
I know! And the final shot of him standing there alone in the dark, with the camera pulling back, goes to show the emptiness of that position of the crown. "The King stay the King"? Sheeeiiiittttt, it's just as you said: Things change, but they don't really. The game (street; police force; politics; etc.) continues. With or without Marlo. With or without Bodie. With or without Stringer and D'Angelo. A huge chuck of existentialism from the show.
The Wire much better than other acclaimed movies like Crash or Babel in showing the interconnectivity of one's actions.
You hit the nail on the fucking head.
Michael, the "next" Omar.
I was so excited to see it end up like that, for some reason. Michael was always too smart for what he was doing. Too much of a leader in him, even from the moment they were introduced as kids playing in the summer. His final conversation with Dukie was so sad, basically acknowledging that he didn't remember being a kid. The paths they both took could be a theme of a show itself. I am glad that he was the one who offed Snoop. She was such a creep.
How did you feel about Omar this season? I think nearly everyone knew that he wouldn't make it out of the series alive. His entrance into this season (as I mentioned in a previous post) was surreal, and then when he arrives back in Baltimore, he is constantly photographed in shadows and darkness, a definite foreshadowing. Even moments before his death while taunting the people from the street, he stands in the shadow of the building, out of time and looking have past dead.
I've read criticism's that Omar's character later on got to be far fetched and superhero-esque. I never felt that, but I felt like Simon played with that notion this season. His survival from the fall, even though based on a real account apparently, was extremely out there at first, but it wouldn't be "The Wire" if it hadn't shown his painful downfall and random and almost anonymous death.
A McNulty spirit lives in the force - Sydnor.
I was also really pleased about this. Very good character and possibly underdeveloped. I'm glad it lives on this way. Nice reference to the first episode, with the judge taking his medication (he's got quite a bit!).
Oh yeah, talk about narrative tapestry. The seeds of Clay Davis were planted in Season 1 and only come to light in Season 4 and 5! Amazing storytelling. Not to mention Clay Davis-Stringer thing gets expounded on in Season 5.
Yeah, I liked the conversation about Stringer. I loved the courtroom scenes with Davis. This whole time, starting from season 1, we are told (most convincingly by Freamon) of where the money goes, and the setup of a solid case is stretched out in detail and revealed. And then, it all comes crashing down. The line about not learning that in law school was great! End of SpoilersOmar, how do you rank the seasons? Tough and virtually impossible, I know. I'm pretty biased as of now, but I would do it probably like this: Season 5 Season 4 Season 3 Season 1 Season 2 It's very hard to do. I feel that when Season 5 is released on DVD (which will hopefully be within the next year), I am going through a massive rewatch of the entire thing.
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Mar 20, 2008 21:28:45 GMT
SEASON 5 SPOILERSOmar, did you catch any familiar homeless living under the bridge? Did you read about something Kenard said in the past?
Yes I did! I had to go back instantly and do a double take. I can't remember his name, but I knew he was one of the main dock workers in Season 2. Further evidence of the greatness behind the themes introduced in Season 2, the death of industry in the American city.
They did a remarkable job at showcasing many former cast members this season. While there were some straightforward ones that were brilliant (Avon's entrance was spectacular, Nick Sobotka yelling at the mayor was awesome!), they did a great job with minor characters too (Savino).
The Kenard aspect is genius! I despised his character so much, yet I thought it was fitting that he killed Omar. Right after he did it, I was instantly reminded of Season 3 with the kids on the street reenacting Omar's robbery. It was only later that I found out that Kenard was one of those kids!!! And on top of that, it was his first episode and the only episode he appeared in Season 3. Would it be too much of a reach to say that Simon had it planned all along? Genius!
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 21, 2008 20:24:20 GMT
I had trouble formatting the post, I couldn't shade out the passages quoting you. SEASON 5 SPOILERSI've read comments elsewhere in which people claim that Dukie's story was unnecessary for this season and stupid. I think it was essential. In order for Bubbles to come full circle and move on (I was worried about him at the beginning of the season, but that final glimpse of him going up the stairs and into the kitchen was beautiful), then you at least had to have some perspective on how he could have gotten on the path of an addict, which is where Dukie's story for the fifth season comes in.
I think it would be a mistake for The Wire not to have a story about a drug addict. I mean explore the drug war, but not a look at drugs at the target level? Naw. I'm sure the very people that complain about Bubbles and Dukie would say so themselves if we never got such stories to begin with.
Yeah, a Bubble prequel seems like an oversight. I think it would be inherently insightful.
The hard truth about people like Dukie is shown when the assistant principal never recognized him. She's seen so many students over her lifetime. Couple that with lack of funding and resources. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's reality.
I'm kind of pissed at Prez for giving Dukie the money. It's obvious he had reservations. He shoulda just said I'll give you the $ if I'm there w/ you signing up for GED classes.
The thing is though Prez can't save Dukie. He's probably got a child or 2 just like him in his class right now. Very tough.
There are some that like The Wire for the gangster element. I find that those who don't like Bubbles and Dukie don't like the stevedores, either, but they want Stringer Bell back from the dead and want Omar to die a better way. *Sighs*
I read somewhere that Simon described Season 5 as Strangelovian. I can't find that interview. You found any quotes? So taking into account the satire route, the serial killer story is thrown into a different light for me. I still felt personally that there should've been a lie that I found more enjoyable to sit through (what a statement! LOL). But you know what. By the last 2 episodes, the serial killer lie and ensuing mess felt believable and very much in line with The Wire. After all The Wire had the Hamsterdam story and a mythical character in Omar! It's fiction.
However, the change to satire in the final season is kind of like if The Sopranos had no dream sequences and surrealism in Season 1-5, but had in Season 6A and B.
Minor criticism, though. I mean the theme of the Baltimore Sun not covering the stories that matter is a scathing critique of the media institutions. Brilliant. Something that Simon said all the journalist critics have missed.
Prop Joe was the biggest druglord and there was no coverage! The messed up school system got passed over in, what, the 1st or 2nd episode?
I knew you'd come around! It's necessary to show that, the Prop Joes and Marlos change, but the big dogs like The Greeks should really be the targets.
By the way, The Greeks are back at their old cafe?
Your mother is awesome. My parents wouldn't like it. Maybe my pops, he loves The Godfather. My mom can't stand swearing.
LOL @ all the people giving Rawls evil eye after he tried to get McNulty to pin all the murders on the homeless guy. Rawls was unlikeable, but was he worse than Burrell? I'm trying to think on that and I'm blanking out.
Those young'uns didn't know who he was! And LOL @ the myth-making of Omar's death (Omar w/ an AK against 7 or 8 guys w/ nines).
Man, how 'bout Marlo blowing up in lock-down? "My name is my name." Chilling.
Tragic, though. Michael's gonna probably die, too, living that life.
Loved Omar's arc this season. Greek tragedy. Couldn't stay out the game and we had a feeling he's not gonna make it. Then the street legend dies the way he did and to have his ID mixed up at the ME's office. Kind of shows how the corners are a world onto themselves.
As for Batman/Spiderman Omar, there's a show on Discovery Channel right now about the human body pushing through limits. How amazing stuff is done in times of survival (e.g., pushing off boulders). I mean when he jumped I was like, "Fuck, he's dead." Didn't lose my mind like some people when Chris and them looked down and saw him gone. I have a problem w/ Omar hiding in the janitor room of that building. Didn't Chris and them go through each room or something like that? Eh, minor. LOL.
[/quote] Frustrating, too. Freamon could've followed the money trail more, but like The Greeks investigation in Season 2, it fell short. The big, big dogs could've potentially gone down.[/color] I'd probably go from most to least favorite: 4, 3, 2, 1, 5 Season 5 isn't terrible by any means. I just think Seasons 2 and 1 are very close to flawless while I can't say that about 5. Some of the absolute best of The Wire is in Season 5, though. Since the week before the series finale episode, I've been rewatching from Season 1 and it's so rich knowing what happens to everyone. I used to think that in terms of humor it was The Sopranos hands down. Now, the distance b/w the 2 isn't that great as I thought it was.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 21, 2008 20:27:40 GMT
Omar, I wouldn't be surprised if they planned it way back when.
I'm looking forward to Simon and Burn's upcoming work Generation Kill.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 25, 2008 0:26:42 GMT
I finished season 1 today.
HOOKED.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 25, 2008 0:54:52 GMT
Pretty, pretty, pretty good (c) Larry David
So glad you're hooked!!!!!
This is such a dense show that all I'm gonna do is ask for quick feedback on:
What stood out to you the most about the show's content and/or themes? Favorite character? Favorite scene? Favorite episode? And whatever else you feel like mentioning.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Mar 25, 2008 1:04:59 GMT
I'm finding it hard not to read these spoilers. I dunno: I like reading spoilers, I guess.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 25, 2008 1:33:49 GMT
Have you been reading spoilers in this thread?
If not, don't start especially with a dense, weaving narrative like The Wire.
Part of experiencing a narrative is being taken where the writers want to take you. Part of the joy of storytelling for the audience (reader; viewer) is the surprises.
Also in terms of criticism, it's spoiled criticism if one knows ahead where the writers are going to take you. It's another layer of expectation that'll no doubt affect one's critical analysis.
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Mar 25, 2008 2:15:06 GMT
I finished season 1 today. HOOKED.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 25, 2008 2:30:30 GMT
SEASON 1 SPOILERS
What stood out to you the most about the show's content and/or themes?
"If you follow the drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. If you start following the money, you don't know where the fuck it'll lead."
The incompatibility between honest police work and a successful police career.
It's so morally complex and balanced. Politically correct without being mannered.
Favorite character?
Omar, Wallace, Bubz, Jay, Bunk, and Stringer (the real kingpin).
And Daniels, increasingly.
Favorite scene?
Daniels finally standing up against Burrell in support of the case. Reddick is such a great actor.
Favorite episode?
Dunno. I kind of watched them all in a row. I watched four today.
And whatever else you feel like mentioning.
My brothers and I kind of have this running in-joke where we say actors look or 'feel' like other actors. Kind of recast the show/movie.
So far we have:
Omar = Coolio (in profile uncanny)
Burrell = Chi McBride (the principal from Boston Public)
Johnny Weeks = Adam Sandler (as one of his many mentally deficient characters)
Lester = Morgan Freeman
Now, on that last one. The similarities in look and mannerism and personality are undeniable. And it wasn't until today that we picked up on the fact that Lester's surname is FREAMON.
That has to be intentional. It seems like the character must've been based on Morgan Freeman's character in Seven. There's absolutely no way it's a coincidence.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 25, 2008 20:47:12 GMT
SEASON 1 SPOILERS"If you follow the drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. If you start following the money, you don't know where the fuck it'll lead." One of many great lines."You can't lose if you don't play. The game is rigged." -Marla Daniels
"All the pieces matter." -Freamon
"This is me, yo. Right here" -Wallace
"You can't call this shit a war." -"Why?" "'Cause wars end." -Carver and Herc
"Thin line between heaven and here." -Bubbles
All tattooed in my brain. (All paraphrased.)
I've done single season marathons on Friday nights to Sunday nights once for each DVD set. Like a good book, can't put it down. Waiting for new episodes for a week was unbearable. There's a chance. If it's true it might be mentioned in this book I'm about to read "The Wire: Truth Be Told" which is a book that definitely should only be read after having watched the show. Don't remember if any character model from tv/movies for Lester were mentioned in the DVD commentaries. I do know that Lester has real-life models - Ed Burns (show's co-exec. producer and writer; former Baltimore police and teacher) and Burn's partner. Burns and his partner worked many wiretaps. Don't know if the Lester aura is based on either of them. Though David Simon has talked about some characters being based on more than one person.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Mar 26, 2008 16:27:03 GMT
Have you been reading spoilers in this thread? No, I haven't. The only spoiler I read was by mistake, on the BB; the one I PM'd you.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 30, 2008 22:41:19 GMT
This thread's new title is unofficially "Possibly the Greatest TV Series Ever (so far)."
Just finished a Season 3 rewatch and the first 3 episodes of Season 4. I used to feel that Season 4 started slow, but no longer feel that way. Maybe watching it right after the last two episodes of Season 3 had something to do with it.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 30, 2008 22:45:16 GMT
I'm five episodes into season 2. It's certainly sprawling. In fact, you can see the gears grinding trying to get all the characters back together.
I can see it going places now though. And the premise is much more my kind of thing.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Mar 31, 2008 2:25:19 GMT
SEASON 2 SPOILERSAnd the premise is much more my kind of thing. Compared to the premise of Season 1? And "premise" as in the port union or smuggling investigations or something else?
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 31, 2008 14:39:50 GMT
SEASON 2 SPOILERS
I'm referring to the container full of dead prostitutes, and the subject of sex slavery.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 31, 2008 14:44:23 GMT
SEASON 2 SPOILERS
By the way, we now have John Travolta, Elias Koteas and Bruce Campbell in the cast.
And I forgot to mention Bodie looks like LL Cool J.
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RNL
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Post by RNL on Mar 31, 2008 14:58:40 GMT
SEASON 2 SPOILERS
The wiggers are hilarious, too.
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