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Post by Vercetti on Jan 4, 2006 22:19:08 GMT
Are you kidding? Who are you to say anything? I say it because it's my opinion. You say it because it's your opinion. That's why. Do I have to be a cinematographer to appreciate beauty? Do I have to be a writer to appreciate dialogue?
You can patronize your opinion on anything. Who am I to think Angelina Jolie is a hot actress? You can’t belittle what you feel.
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Post by Michael on Jan 4, 2006 23:05:08 GMT
Fair enough, Vercetti. Everybody is different. Personally, my brain has a hard time rationalizing separating best from favorites. When I form an opinion, I don't sit and think about it. I derive my opinions from how I feel at that particular moment in time, and the emotions that run through me when watching my favorite films bring me a feeling of wonder and joy by the time the film is over. If I don't get that feeling from a movie like Casablanca, then why should I rank it among the best ever? Wait, let me guess, "Because it's influence on cinema and society in general is immeasurable." Not to sound like a popmus jackass, but fuck society. I honestly couldn't give 2 shits about how films affect other people. All I care about is me. The films that influence me are the ones I feel are the best, and my favorites. You, of all people Vercetti, someone who is intrigued by and can relate to loneliness, should be the last person to care how a film affects others. I mean, if it's your opinion of what goes in your best films list, and you feel no personal affection for Lawrence of Arabia, why should it be in Don Vercetti's 10 greatest films of all time list[/i]? "Hey Mike, you wanna watch the South Park movie or Lawrence of Arabia?" "South Park" *film finishes "Wow I really enjoyed that! Hilarious!" "Yeah, it's one of my favorite movies. Lawrence of Arabia is way better though." "Uhhh...why didn't you want to watch it then?" "South Park entertains me more." "What makes Lawrence of Arabia so great then?" "Oh, the stunning visuals, great cast, the music, all that stuff..." "WHY DIDN'T YOU WATCH IT THEN?!" "I told you, South Park entertains me more..." "Well, what about South Park's visuals, cast, music and all that stuff?" "They're pretty good, but not nearly as good as Lawrence of Arabia's..." "Well...if all those aspects are better in Lawrence of Arabia, I ask again, WHY DIDN'T YOU WATCH IT?!" "Come on man, it's 4 hours long. I don't have time to sit and watch it now. In fact, I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to watch it again." "Then shouldn't it be considered flawed for being overlong?" "No." "Why not?!" "I told you, the cinematography, the acting, the directing, everything in this film shines." "But you're never gonna watch it again?" "Most likely no, not in the near future...maybe some time down the road. When I do watch it I'll be bored to tears though." I don't understand it.
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Post by Michael on Jan 4, 2006 23:24:58 GMT
Note: I'm not trying to convince you of anything or change your opinion. If you can make 2 separate lists and feel completely comfortable with it, then by all means continue doing so. I find it admirable that you have the ability to do it as well as you do.
Personally, I cannot continue to separate my favorites from the best, simply because I am not comfortable in doing so. Perhaps it is because I haven't learned enough about film yet, or haven't seen enough great movies to differentiate between the two.
Whatever the reason, I simply can't do it any longer. And having 2 very intelligent posters (Capo and Wet Dog) feel the same way makes me feel much better about my decision.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 4, 2006 23:32:05 GMT
Perhaps it is because I haven't learned enough about film yet, or haven't seen enough great movies to differentiate between the two. Oddly, I feel the other way round. Not that I'm an expert on film or anything, but my having two lists was out of not really knowing what was great and what wasn't. Now I know: it's all personal.
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Post by Vercetti on Jan 4, 2006 23:52:31 GMT
I'm not going to be closed-minded and grade films based on entertainment, which is, as I said, too shallow an emotion to rate films. Man On Fire entertained me, because I like revenge films, but it was a horrible attempt that felt like an MTV music video. Does that mean I can't watch it again? No. Eraser entertains me, but it's horrible.
If I used entertainment as a grading emotion, then I'd have over three times as many four star films.
Also, when did I mention "other people"? My opinion has nothing to do with other people, but I do count influence in many instances. Even in music, I praise The Beatles for amazing positive influence. You're off target on your perception of my rating style.
Now this sounds like the average teenager. It reminds me of a guy at school who disliked Collateral, and said the exact same thing. Man on Fire was way better. He kicked ass."
I'd be more along the lines of "Artistically Lawrence of Arabia is better, although entertainment-wise, I like South Park more."
To quote George Carlin, "What's the fucking mystery?"
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Post by Michael on Jan 5, 2006 0:14:03 GMT
Now this sounds like the average teenager. It reminds me of a guy at school who disliked Collateral, and said the exact same thing. Man on Fire was way better. He kicked ass." Are you calling me an average teenager? ;D You actually know somebody in real life who's seen Collateral? Hah, the only movies kids in my school watch are with Colin Pharrell, Ben Stiller and Adam Sandler. This is an actual quote I heard a girl say at my school: "OMG have you seen Elf? That is seriously like the greatest movie ever made. Without a doubt." As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to refute it. Like you said earlier, this isn't a debate. It's more of a discussion to express our viewpoints in words, in order to better understand them.
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Post by Vercetti on Jan 5, 2006 0:40:49 GMT
I was referring to the quote.
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Post by Michael on Jan 5, 2006 0:59:56 GMT
I was joking. Look at the smilies.
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Post by Vercetti on Jan 5, 2006 1:06:05 GMT
I know it was a joke, but that's irrelevant.
You were sarcastically putting that as a possible, or slightly exaggerated conversation between two people as a way of countering my view on movies. I stated how I WOULD say that sentence, because the way you put it was very average in most movie goers who simply look into entertainment. Period.
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jrod
Ghost writer
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Post by jrod on Jan 5, 2006 7:29:32 GMT
I just put them on lists in terms of how much I like them, eventually it evens on. With multiple viewings a movie that isnt all that great will cease to be as entertaining. Watching both Fight Club and Chinatown for the first time a few years ago, both were in the 30s or so in my top 100. Having seen both 3 or 4 times since, Chinatown is pretty much where it has always been, and Fight Club wouldnt be on the list if I doubled its size
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Post by Driver on Jan 5, 2006 17:34:32 GMT
Pulp Fiction Quentin Tarantino The Godfather Part II Francis Ford Coppola The Godfather Francis Ford Coppola Rear Window Alfred Hitchcock Fight Club David Fincher Taxi Driver Martin Scorsese The Deer Hunter Michael Cimino Edward Scissorhands Tim Burton Sin City Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller Schindler's List Steven Spielberg
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Post by johndav on Jan 14, 2006 14:56:24 GMT
Sansho the Bailiff (Mizoguchi) Mirror (Tarkovsky) Andrei Rublev (Tarkovsky) Paris Texas (Wenders) L'Avventura (Antonioni) 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick) The Green Ray (Rohmer) Maborosi (Kore-eda) Celine and Julie go Boating (Rivette) Sunrise (Murnau) + North by Northwest (Hitchcock) Alice in the Cities (Wenders) Some Like it Hot (Wilder) Rules of the Game (Renoir) Tales of the Taira Clan (Mizoguchi) Seven Samurai (Kurosawa) Tokyo Story (Ozu) Abraham Valley (Oliveira) Vertigo (Hitchcock) Letter from an Unknown Woman (Ophuls) Pather Panchali (Ray) Story of the Late Chrysanthemums (Mizoguchi) Pierrot le Fou (Godard) Eternity and a Day (Angelopoulos) Casablanca (Curtiz)
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 14, 2006 17:32:16 GMT
Welcome to the board, Johndav.
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Post by johndav on Jan 14, 2006 20:03:13 GMT
Thanks! I get the impression my choices are lagging behind a bit.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 14, 2006 23:21:18 GMT
What do you mean?
Whatever, your taste seems to fit right in; there are many fans who share a passion for the directors you've listed there.
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Post by johndav on Jan 15, 2006 10:30:13 GMT
Oh good, and don't mind me, just feeling sulky at relative lack of Mizoguchi, having been lured here by his name. And i probably didn't look carefully enough at all the other lists! Anyway, since my comment, i've discovered someone here, a young person, with really marvellous taste!
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 15, 2006 21:45:26 GMT
Coppola has three films on the list right now. Scorsese has two. All films are US productions, and all are English language. The oldest film is Vertigo (1958); the newest is Pulp Fiction (1994).
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Post by Michael on Jan 18, 2006 21:49:14 GMT
Aguirre, der Zorn Gottes Aguirre, Wrath of God Werner Herzog 1972 West GermanyCitizen Kane Orson Welles 1941 USAThe Conversation Francis Ford Coppola 1974 USADon't Look Now Nicolas Roeg 1973 UKEraserhead David Lynch 1976 USAThe French Connection William Friedkin 1971 USAManhattan Woody Allen 1979 USALe samouraï The Samurai Jean-Pierre Melville 1967 FranceTaxi Driver Martin Scorsese 1976 USAWeek-end Weekend Jean-Luc Godard 1967 France/Italy Capo, out of pure curiosity, I'd like to see your list without the one film per director rule.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 18, 2006 22:00:46 GMT
Hmm, never thought about that since making that list. Really, I couldn't just throw one up. I'll give it some thought, and if I were to change my list, I'll get back to you...
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Post by Michael on Jan 18, 2006 22:15:03 GMT
Thank you very much kind sir.
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