Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 28, 2008 3:13:03 GMT
What did you guys who have seen it, feel about this movie?
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 29, 2008 3:43:21 GMT
It's the finest film of the decade besides "Munich" and "Children of Men"
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Post by svsg on Jan 29, 2008 4:20:06 GMT
No recent movie made such a powerful impact on me. I don't know if it will be a lasting impact though. It made me completely uncomfortable at the right places. The tension throughout the movie was overwhelming. I did not understand the last scene though. SPOILER Why did Daniel murder Eli? The explanation must somehow be the core theme of the movie, which probably escaped me. Any one? END OF SPOILER
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jrod
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Post by jrod on Jan 29, 2008 4:52:33 GMT
2007 might be the best year Ive experienced in my life when it comes to movies, and There Will Be Blood is my favorite of the entire thing
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 29, 2008 4:54:35 GMT
SPOILER:
Why did he murder Eli? Because he considered Eli a hypocrite and a fool as a beliver in religion. Eli is concerned about money and power, just like Painview except Eli hides behind god. Plainview grows tired of hiding. He sees in Eli the bullshit and he also holds a grudge I suppose that Eli could not heal his son of his hearing loss.
That and he was fucking batshit. That helps too.
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Omar
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Post by Omar on Jan 29, 2008 5:22:06 GMT
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERSSPOILER: Because he considered Eli a hypocrite and a fool as a beliver in religion. Eli is concerned about money and power, just like Painview except Eli hides behind god. Plainview grows tired of hiding. He sees in Eli the bullshit. That and he he's fucking batshit. That helps too. SPOILERSI think you are right on with those points Mike. I think that essentially, Eli and Daniel were one in the same with their mentalities. Daniel saw Eli as competition. And if you take the film to be the de-evolution (?) of Daniel Plainview, opening with the humanity of him taking the child, to the final moments of him truly abandoning the child and then brutally killing his brother through marriage, another false bloodline like his adopted son. This is where I've read of an interesting interpretation of the murdering Eli scene as possibly being a drunken delusion. In the scene before, he truly abandons his son as Eli had spoken of many years before during the Baptism. Plainview's reaction to Eli speaking those words in the church was mortifying. And then now, getting drunk after abandoning his son, he is reminded of Eli. It's important to notice that Eli is the only one (including the son and his wife) who hasn't aged in the 1927 sequence. Now, he truly gets his revenge, even if only in a dream. The final words, "I'm finished!", are brilliant closure to Plainview's existence in the human race.
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Post by Michael on Jan 29, 2008 5:44:27 GMT
I think I might actually go see this.
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Capo
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Post by Capo on Jan 29, 2008 10:24:51 GMT
I'm looking forward to this so much - trailers in which very little happens are a good sign. Alas, I've just read svsg's spoiler. Couldn't help myself.
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 29, 2008 21:52:36 GMT
Bad Capo. Bad.
Omar, I can understand that drunken delusion interpretation of the final scene. It would explain the buttler's reaction. I mean, if I found my boss with a bowling pin in hand after he's beaten a priest to death, I'd run out for the police.
Then again, the buttler may just hace been in shock.
It's an ambiguous ending. Reminds me of Once Upon a Time in America because I'm sure it's open to many other interpretations.
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 30, 2008 3:50:07 GMT
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE! DRAINAGE!
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 30, 2008 23:01:42 GMT
Shit, I think it's the greatest American fictional film in, like, the last 20 years.
Spoilers
Do you guys think that Daniel really did know that Paul and Eli were twin brothers? It's possible that when Daniel was teasing Eli about Paul's success that he thought Eli had split personalities or was mentally sick or something.
Do you guys think that Daniel loved H.W.? I say, hell yes.
The picture that Daniel found in the diary/journal that Henry (can't remember his real name) was of who do you think?
H.W. was skeptical about Henry because of the newspaper clipping of guns he found in the diary?
I found it odd that Daniel hid his face with the napkin to hid what he was saying to the Standard Oil guy so that H.W. couldn't read his lips or his facial expressions. Shouldn't Daniel let H.W. know that Daniel cares about him? (Even if the Standard Oil guy didn't really tell Daniel how to raise H.W. LOL.)
When Daniel sent H.W. away, do you guys think he sent him to a school for the deaf or boarding school w/ the intent of leaving him there at first?
I've read that in the script, Daniel admitted he's impotent.
Do you guys think that Eli put Bandy up to blackmail Daniel w/ the Baptism for Bandy's land? The reason I ask is because shouldn't Eli have known that Daniel owned Bandy's land as a result; thus, wouldn't it make sense that Daniel already looked for oil on that land years ago? Also, in the bowling alley, Daniel said that he owned the land around Bandy's land; thus, he owned what was under it - seepage. I thought Daniel owned Bandy's land.
Are you guys reading the film as a parable or allegory?
Anyway, the movie is mindblowing. Easily in the company of The Godfathers and Citizen Kane.
Oh yeah, as far as why I think Daniel kills Eli...
I think Daniel judged Eli to be a fraud from the start. Plus, since Daniel admitted he's so competitive, he didn't like Eli impinging on his crew to join his church. I'm thinking that he thinks Eli could pose a threat to his influence should Eli get more powerful in the community. So, there's that rivalry.
I think Eli humiliating Daniel at the baptism permanently put Eli on Daniel's shitlist at the top spot. Also, even if Daniel didn't believe in Eli's healing powers, I think he's pissed that Eli didn't even reach out to H.W. after his hearing loss.
So, keep in mind Daniel's misanthropy speech to Henry. And keep in mind that when Eli visits Daniel in the final scene, Daniel is drunk and has pretty much gone as far from humanity as he can in isolation considering he got fucked over by a fake brother and a son who he feels abandoned him to become his competitor. Daniel's at rock bottom.
By the time Eli comes, Daniel just had enough of life and people. Here comes this dude that he hates and has the nerve to try and do business w/ him. This fraud.
It's probably the last grudge that'll come to his home 'cause Daniel sure as hell isn't gonna go out and see people.
Daniel is just pissed off and has had enough. His final murder is sort of like him going all the way. After he was done he said, "I'm finished." Finished w/ his steak. Finished w/ Eli. Finished w/ man entirely.
That's my take.
End Spoilers
No Country For Old Men is a perfect movie, but it's child's play compared to this monster of a movie. I hope the Coens don't beat out PTA for more directing awards. I sure as hell hope fuckin' Atonement, Michael Clayton, or wack-ass Juno don't beat out TWBB for Best Pic. If No Country wins Best Pic, I can live w/ that, but TWBB is far superior in my opinion.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 30, 2008 23:10:28 GMT
Edited my previous post to give my take on svsg's question that's a spoiler.
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 30, 2008 23:35:16 GMT
I wouldn't refer to Juno as "wack ass Juno". It's another masterpiece and a wonderfuly, heartfelt comedy. Doesn't all need to be about madness and death to be great.
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Post by svsg on Jan 31, 2008 0:01:49 GMT
With so many questions and interpretations, I am tempted to watch the movie again, but don't feel like paying again to watch it in the theater
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 31, 2008 0:10:44 GMT
Doesn't all need to be about madness and death to be great. I know. And, people here know that I've rated stuff like Annie Hall and Back To The Future as some of the greatest movies of all-time.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 31, 2008 0:21:54 GMT
SPOILERSThis is where I've read of an interesting interpretation of the murdering Eli scene as possibly being a drunken delusion. In the scene before, he truly abandons his son as Eli had spoken of many years before during the Baptism. Plainview's reaction to Eli speaking those words in the church was mortifying. And then now, getting drunk after abandoning his son, he is reminded of Eli. It's important to notice that Eli is the only one (including the son and his wife) who hasn't aged in the 1927 sequence. SPOILERSInteresting. Considering that the exact shot that immediately precedes the bowling alley scene is Daniel's flashback of him goofing around w/ H.W. in Little Boston around 1911. And the shot before that is a shot of Daniel. So, we could say that from that shot of Daniel and on, what we see is Daniel's flashback, imagination, dream, or thoughts. Pretty solid, I admit, but I personally don't think so. As for Eli not aging, Daniel as an adult would age more by appearance from 1911-1927 than Eli who I assume is a teenager in 1911. H.W. would age/change more physically, too, in that time span. So, Eli's appearance still holds up if that sequence wasn't Daniel's imagination, dream, daydream, or drunken delusion. Lastly, Day-Lewis has spoken of that scene and hasn't hinted that it isn't real. I think that's (dream, imagination sequence, drunken delusion) something that PTA and him would circulate in interviews if it were true. SPOILERS
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 31, 2008 0:33:02 GMT
With so many questions and interpretations, I am tempted to watch the movie again, but don't feel like paying again to watch it in the theater Look at it this way. More tickets sold means suits will be more willing to financially back a PTA picture in the future. It took PTA 2 years to find the $25 million to make TWBB and PTA's own former agent is an executive at Paramount Vantage that financed the movie! Why is dreck like Meet The Spartans always being made, and why is stuff like TWBB rare? Or, why did Zodiac get shitted on got released in the wasteland of March when it won't be remembered come awards season? If you're or anybody is unhappy w/ movie studio decisions, you let it be known not by talking about movies on messageboards or over coffee w/ your friends, but by helping the movie that you support (and would like to see more of) by helping its financial bottom line. Executives follow the money. If Zodiac, TWBB, NCFOM, Requiem for a Dream ruled the box office and not Meet the Spartans, Scary Movie 58, or uninspired sequels and remakes, then we'd see more ballsy and just plain great American movies. I was glad to pay to see TWBB three times b/c I'm doing my part to help change the movie landscape. Same thing w/ radio and tv.
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jrod
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Post by jrod on Jan 31, 2008 0:35:27 GMT
SPOILER
How bout that freaking scene when they got the oil out of the ground and HW lost his hearing? Worth the price of the ticket alone. The music and cinematography are breathtaking
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Post by Mike Sullivan on Jan 31, 2008 1:38:11 GMT
Not to mention the sheer momentum that the direction and editing give to that sequence. It's fucking gorgeous.
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Kino
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Post by Kino on Jan 31, 2008 2:08:09 GMT
I wouldn't refer to Juno as "wack ass Juno". It's another masterpiece and a wonderfuly, heartfelt comedy. Doesn't all need to be about madness and death to be great. Just to clear it up, but I was being hyperbolic. I think Juno is, at best, near-solid, though, the dialogue in the beginning was pretty difficult for me to warm up to. Cera is one of my fave actors out there. I like Little Miss Sunshine better, and I didn't like that comedy that much. However, I do think Juno doesn't belong in that category even if Knocked Up which I think is a superior comedy ended up in the Best Pic, I'd be irritated and hyperbolic and refer to it as wack ass. However, if we're talking a masterful comedy like The General, City Lights, Monsieur Hulot's Holiday, or The Great Dictator then I wouldn't mind one of 'em in this Best Pic category. Basically if it's great, be it comedy, musical, or drama, I'd welcome it. TWBB SpoilersAs for the derrick explosion. Another masterfully directed sequence by PTA. Utterly enthralling. My muscles tensed up and I sat up like an enamored 3 year old watching a youth theatre production. The images of Daniel's face covered in oil in darkness so we barely see Daniel looking at the fire is tattooed in my brain. So is the silhouette long shot of the men in front of the fire The long tracking shot when Daniel's carrying H.W. away. The subjective sound design. Greenwood's percussive music piece. And, we haven't even talked about the 1898-1911 "silent" sequence. My God! End Spoilers
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